Phil Toledano is a native Londoner who has called New York his home for almost 15 years. He has been a LVHRD member since summer 2006 when he competed in PHTHRD: Photography Duel.

A couple weeks ago it came to our attention that a photograph taken by Phil inspired a new song by Stephin Merritt of the Magnetic Fields for NPR’s Project Song. I got in touch with Phil to see what he’s been working on since he competed at PHTHRD: mostly talking to phone sex workers for a new book project and dreaming about Greek orgies.

Somewhere in between he’s found the time to put together an installation project called America the Gift Shop, reifying American foreign policy with a series of warped consumer goods. More on the many-headed hydra of consumerism below.

How long have you lived in new york?
About 14 years, I think.

What are your favorite parts of the city? Anywhere you go specifically to think or drink or shoot?
I stopped leaving my apartment a while ago. I actually like taking the bus; it’s a good place to think, although most of my ideas happen just after i wake up. I don’t sleep much. I’m up at 6 am writing emails, etc. I’m famous for being tired.

Any trends you see in photography overall right now? Do you even pay attention to a general aesthetic movement?
I tend to live in my own little biosphere, but the snapshot thing does seem to be going on a bit, no?

The Point and Shoot underage thing.
It’s actually getting on my nerves a bit. Try framing every now and then!

You can only do so much coke with so many girls from Omaha.
I wish I took those kind of photos.

Because then you could have a blog with 1.5 million hits a minute from people who want to see their tongues in strangers’ mouths.
Exactly! Yes, it’s a rush. Instant gratification born for a generation used to being satisfied instantly. Framing is sooooo old.

There are no mistakes, just the moment, Phil.
The problem is, all those photos turn into Mcphotos. I don’t think the percentage of genius has increased worldwide; I think there’ s more to swim through.

The way media streams today, the accessibility of it, means that anyone can flood our synapses with whatever they make.
And that’s cool, because i’ve seen so much amazing stuff, it makes me think I have no creativity at all. The web is an amazing arbiter of genius. It’s like a GIANT Judge Judy. But it’s fair, unlike the offline world, I think.

What is photography to you? To what do you liken the experience of photographing?
Hmm..it’s generally not really about capturing a moment for me
it’s more realizing a narrative, an idea, and watching it become more tangible with each shot and then a real sense of satisfaction to be able to look at a series as though i’ve built a house. Not to say i don’t take ‘accidental photographs’ or spur of the moment shots, but i just like to realize the ideas that elbow their way into my consciousness.

Did you always know you wanted to be a photographer, or was there a certain epiphany?
Well, I’ve always known that i wanted to make things; I started very young, when i was about 12 or so. Photography is just the start, actually.

Photography is one of the few art forms, apart from writing and cinema, that I appreciate and enjoy. Art has to have a very tangible story for me to enjoy it.
That’s interesting. I know what you mean, but there’s something to be said for beauty, although i always say there’s too much of it in the world, but when you see a Richard Serra or a Henry Moore it’s hard to argue!

Who is someone you admire as an artist? Any genre.
Terrence Malick, F.Scott Fitzgerald, Guy Bourdin, Vermeer, Edward Hopper, Henri Rousseau, Bill Brandt, so many!

I still want to see Days of Heaven.
Genius. All his (Malick) stuff is genius. What’s great is that he lingers and shows you things that have nothing to do with anything other than beauty. He doesn’t foreshadow; he just shows you the sky, or a field, and how it looks in a particular light.

Would you like to make films?
YES!

Have you ever dabbled in it?
Not really. I did direct some commercials last week for a bank. They gave me a lot of leeway to make something strange and a little abstract. There was no dialogue. It was the camera sort of drifting about the office, finding little situations. A bit voyeuristic.

I would be very interested to see what you did with a bank commercial Mr. We-Are-Consuming-Ourselves.
I’m not sure it was that interesting. There were a lot of constraints!

Do you feel like constraints help you work more creatively or just piss you off?
Actually, usually yes. It’s nice to be in a little box, but only if you have freedom inside of that little space! Sometimes it just gets smaller and smaller
and then i turn into a sulky teenager.

You competed at PHTHRD this summer with 4 other photographers. You had to photograph three briefs–dialogue,inspiration and character–in 90 minutes. What was that experience like?
A lot of fun. I really liked the chaos. I was disappointed i didn’t win, naturally.

Stephin Merritt of The Magnetic Fields recently chose your photo of the man in a giant baby suit for inspiration for a song he recorded on NPR’s Project Song. An interpretation I might gleam from that photo is the male gender’s seemingly innate fear of producing children.
Actually, the thing i like about the Hope & Fear project is that everyone has very different interpretations. It was actually about the idea of the future ethnicity of the populous at large, but the idea of fear of having children certainly is one interpretation!

Do you mean the population becoming more and more diverse?
Yes, the idea of the death of ‘white,’ which might make things better, but probably not. People aren’t really interested in getting along these days, it seems.

Maybe just in becoming car salesmen.
That’s always a bit easier.

Also in the Hope & Fear series, the man covered in ears: I saw it as a commentary on the increasing paranoia brought on not just by surveillance, but by the massive pressure of self-awareness, a byproduct of constantly being marketed to.
Exactly. Too many voices.

Have you done commercial photography? Photographs aimed at selling a product?
Sure, I’ve done some ad stuff. I need money to finance my projects! Especially the new one I’m working on…It’s usually quite painless; money is a splendid anesthetic.

So these two ideas–the world becoming less white and money being a splendid anesthetic–are they related?
I don’t think so! I don’t have enough money to test that theory. That’ll come later when I’m a famous (and boorish) artist!

Can I get a preview of your new project?
It’s called, America the Gift Shop. I suppose the idea would be: what if American foreign policy, specifically, and domestic policy in general, were to have a gift shop. What things would be sold there? Does that make sense? It’s not a photography project, it’s more installation pieces. For instance, do you know what a bouncy castle is?

Moon Walks!
Yes, the things kids jump up and down on. I’m making a full size replica
of a Guantanamo Bay prison cell as a bouncy castle. Or you know what ‘bobbleheads’ are?

Yes.
Do you know that Abu Ghraib image of the prisoner standing on the crate, with the hood on? I’m making that into a bobblehead. 100 of them. It’s the policies of America reflected in the fun house mirror of American commerce and consumerism. Maybe that’s a better way to describe the idea.

Do you hope the project will make people (not only Americans) reflect on the culture they’re choosing to promulgate?
Yes. I mainly want to point out the folly of our ways using a vernacular that we can all understand. Instead of paint and canvas, my materials are the stuff of the masses, things we all are very familiar with.

The horror of the Real.
The Real is always much more horrifying if it’s made of the things that are closest to us. I tried to have the bobbleheads made in the USA, but oddly, not much success.

Instead of Derek Jeter you get a cloaked “insurgent.”
Exactly! I just got back some t-shirts that i had made; they say: I got rendered to a secret prison, and all they gave me was this lousy t-shirt. I’m hijacking the vernacular of the everyday. The cheesier and more familiar it is, the better ‘host’ it becomes for the idea.

Do you ever listen to Radiohead? They’re masters at taking cliches and making them hosts for new ideas.
Actually, not really. I’m a bit out of the loop with music. I tend to go off on strange musical tangents.

What are you listening to right now? What’s in your CD player or on your iPod?
I was listening to a lot of sea shanties this week. I like the history. Then some band called Husky Rescue and the Junior Boys.

Are those like sailor ballads? We all went down with the ship and such?
Exactly.

Where do you find sea shanties?
Online. Drifting about…That was a horrible puny metaphor. Did you feel sick suddenly? Sorry, hang on 2 secs!

Time Passes…

Sorry, that was a woman calling, from my new book. That sounds a bit odd, doesn’t it?

Yes. Does she live in your book? Is she a character?
Well, I suppose she’s many characters. It’s a book of portraits of phone sex operators.

So you just had a normal phone call with a phone sex operator?
Yes. She’s found a few other PSOs who’d like to participate in the project.

Are they all women?
Mostly women, but a few men. I have them write about their experiences to go with the photographs.

Any predominant demographic?
All ages and colors. Some really amazing stories.

Do you find most of them like their job?
It depends. They all have different reasons for doing it

Do you think we punish ourselves with the way we choose to sustain our lives?
I don’t think we see it on a micro level. It’s like smoking: you know it’s bad, but you still do it.

I’m thinking of that series you did called Marks, the impressions left in the skin from various articles of clothing, almost like torture scars.
That series was more about the idea of impermanent history, actually, very close to bankrupt; the idea that our bodies can, very briefly, tell stories about us. Who we are, what we wear, our choices, just for that moment.

I got just the opposite from it.
But that’s good! As i said earlier, I’m glad if people make totally different interpretations. Isn’t that the point of art? Questions?

Have you seen or read American Psycho?
Yes, i love it. The book is freaky and the film is hilarious.

The final line of the book, roughly: Above the door in letters that match the drapes is a sign that says, THIS IS NOT AN EXIT. What does that say to you about the way those of us who participate in consumerism–the struggle to earn and spend–live our lives?
That we can’t buy our way our of ourselves. It’s hard. I love consuming. I love reality TV, fast cars, etc–all the cliches. The problem with cliches is that they’re all true and they’re all great. Also, it’s a struggle that we feel more in this country than anywhere else i’ve ever been. Not to say it doesn’t exist elsewhere, but you are what you eat and we eat A LOT here. It’s a bloody salad bar of consumerism. Everyone peering through the smudgy sneezeguard to see what plasma TV they’re going to pick next.

I think in order to relevantly interpret this culture of death and regret you MUST understand, even embrace cliches. You MUST pick up US Weekly, Star in the checkout line.
I love that STARS-THEY’RE JUST LIKE US! section. The wife gets all that stuff.

To be a part of it, to go to the Apple Store and buy a new iPod Nano and Macbook. I was in line there this weekend and felt like I was walking down the aisle to get married. I got cold feet and wanted to get out of line.
The mac assistants ready to give you away.

Totally. So now that you have regular gigs do you like buying new gadgets?
Of course! Although, out of protest, I wish there was something radially new, some new tech–Star Trek, you know? Instead of just faster, more memory, smaller, etc. Cybernetic implants, the holodeck. Where the fuck is the holodeck!?

Where would you go?
On the holodeck? ROME! Ancient rome! I LOVED archeology as a kid.

And what would you do?
Take a steam bath. Who knows! Walk around. Go to the coliseum. Have an orgy. Does it count if you ‘do it’ on the holodeck, if you’re married?